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Thread: Scam or legit????

  1. #1

    Scam or legit????

    How does someone know if he is getting ripped off by an engine builder?
    In December I dropped an engine off to an establishment that had an ad on here for a ProCharger build. The company that I took the engine to is a 5 hour drive from my house. The gentleman unloaded my engine and we discussed a period of six weeks and a fee of $14,000 to convert My 572 bbc. from nitrous to a blower system. I provided the heads, crank, and rods. He said he would order the F-3 ProCharge head complete...His shop was kind'a empty, but I thought he would be legit having an ad on here for a distributor along with countless other racing products.
    I sent him $11,000 via money order...I called from time to time, and he just kept saying his day job and family life was taking precedence, and he was trying.

    About 2 1/2 months ago when he was supposed to be wrapping up mocking up the head. I phoned him, and he said he needed another $5,000 for an oil pan and Jessell rockers along with other things he forgot or didn't see....I reminded him he is over budget and I was becoming impatient... He called me back to tell me I could pick it up the following week...

    Now another 2 weeks and he forgot to order a timing chain...(awhile back he was all set to mock the head up as I mentioned)..Oh yeah.. AND he needs another $3,000 and said a competitor gets a lot more for the same HP engine.

    Now I am supposed to go tomorrow to pick it up...I have had to phone him for 95 percent of the business and days go by before he returns my calls or replies to my emails...Is this right for an engine builder???

    If I go there and he isn't around after a 5 hr. drive do I call the police???

    Please let me know...I am confused...Thanks!!!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE lively's Avatar
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    YOU HAVE BEEN TAKEN -PERIOD ops:

    PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO ASK AROUND BEFORE YOU HAVE SOMETHING DONE--THAT IS WHERE THIS FORUM IS GREAT-[WE DO NOT CARE WHO WE CHECK OUT !!!!]

    WHEN HE HAS TOO MANY OTHER COMMITMENTS BEFORE YOUR $14,000 ENGINE BUILD --THAT WAS A BIG SIGN-[YOU ARE GOING TO GET SCREWED ON THIS

    NOW HE KEEPS ASKING FOR MORE MORE OVER THER AGREED PRICE!!!!

    THERE ARE SOME GREAT ENGINE BUILDERS ON OUR FORUM WHO WOULD HAVE GLADLY BUILT YOU A HONEST/ GREAT ENGINE --WITHOUT THE WORRY AND STRESS

    I WOULD ASK ALOT OF ????? WHEN YOU GET THERE AND PULL THE VALVE COVERS JUST TO MAKE HIM NERVOUS--IT HAS THE ABILITY TO MAKE HIM SUDDENLY MORE HONEST 8)

    SORRY FOR THE RANT BUT I HATE CROOKS AND CONIVERS[BAIT AND SWITCH BUILDERS]---I ONLY NEED $3000 MORE TO FINISH---TRUST ME !!!!

    NAME AND ADD ####### ???????

  3. #3
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    Quote Originally Posted by lively
    YOU HAVE BEEN TAKEN -PERIOD ops:

    PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO ASK AROUND BEFORE YOU HAVE SOMETHING DONE--THAT IS WHERE THIS FORUM IS GREAT-[WE DO NOT CARE WHO WE CHECK OUT !!!!]

    WHEN HE HAS TOO MANY OTHER COMMITMENTS BEFORE YOUR $14,000 ENGINE BUILD --THAT WAS A BIG SIGN-[YOU ARE GOING TO GET SCREWED ON THIS

    NOW HE KEEPS ASKING FOR MORE MORE OVER THER AGREED PRICE!!!!

    THERE ARE SOME GREAT ENGINE BUILDERS ON OUR FORUM WHO WOULD HAVE GLADLY BUILT YOU A HONEST/ GREAT ENGINE --WITHOUT THE WORRY AND STRESS

    I WOULD ASK ALOT OF ????? WHEN YOU GET THERE AND PULL THE VALVE COVERS JUST TO MAKE HIM NERVOUS--IT HAS THE ABILITY TO MAKE HIM SUDDENLY MORE HONEST 8)

    SORRY FOR THE RANT BUT I HATE CROOKS AND CONIVERS[BAIT AND SWITCH BUILDERS]---I ONLY NEED $3000 MORE TO FINISH---TRUST ME !!!!

    NAME AND ADD ####### ???????
    gotta agree with ya man.... sounds like trouble to me :x take someone with you for a witness and that either knows about motors or cant atleast talk the talk... then inspect the motor and talk among yourselfs and look at his face while you and your friend talk to see if he's getting nervous or sweating ....... you get your answer then......lol
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  4. #4
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE TheRabbit's Avatar
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    Almost all engine builders take way longer than they tell you.
    Too late, but my advise would be get it in writting. Always have a signed list of parts you take to a builder, an estimate of what's to be done and a esimate of the cost.
    If he didn't take anything from you (I mean steal something) their is very little you can do. If there is no intent of fraud, which in this case would be next to impossible to prove partly because you took the parts to him and he has done (and still working on them). You can get the police involved, but there is not much they will do. They may even threaten him, but again they only have your word against his. I was involved in this same kind of situation that lasted almost a year.
    There were many phone calls to the police, many to the builder and the owner of the motor unfortunate for me I was just the middle man that took the parts to the builder. The owner of motor told the builder he wasn't in a hurry and didn't plan to race for almost a year, but after a few months got impatient. I learned a good leason from that one. Get everything in writting and everybody will be on the same page and you will have proof if it does have to become a legal matter.

  5. #5
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE TheYellaBrick's Avatar
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    If a guy is a high demand engine builder and NOT a 'businessman', he will eventually be so backed up on engine orders and behind on bills, he starts using parts monies from one customer to pay parts bills of a different customers engine.
    My brother let this creep up on him a few years back. A genuine high po engine scientist/builder, but NOT a businessman. A bankruptcy, mad customers/friends/associates, a near divorce, and mental stressed to the max. He's paid back 98% of what he owed his customers outside of the bankruptcy, but it's taken 10+ years.
    He's still building lots of high HP engines for folks, but has taken a completely different approach.
    Sorry to get sidetracked, just relating a true story why you should get EVERYTHING in writing and document the progress of where YOUR parts/money is going.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE lively's Avatar
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    ANYTHING ON THIS ENGINE--- YET????? 8) 8)

  7. #7
    Senior Member DYNO OPERATOR bixblk's Avatar
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    engine guys

    I recently have had a bad experience with a engine builder that I have done busniess with for almost 9 years, bottom line,what I have learned get it in writing and hope fully specific in the scope and extent of the work.If you discuss something with him document it and have him sign it or initial it. At the very least write it down the way the discussion went down, because it may be admissible if shown to be valid which can be done, One way is to tell the builder during the conversation that I see you did not write something down, so now I will and could you please sign it, also you need to be comfortable with your own actions, if you feel you should have done something than do it, if you feel you did all you could than use that as the "energy " to pursue the next step. My dilema is because 90 % of the work he has done for me in the past has been verbal, and it went fine, I let my guard down and ythis happens. I do have some documentation and it is "damning " for him the verbal agreement/understanding is what I need to did acoss. He honestly flat out lied about hard parts and installing proper anti freeze, so I have hard evidence and documented and verbal now the next step ?
    Good Luck and it is a real shame that we cannot take people at their word, that speaks volumns about society. Stay strong and I hope the right thing happens for you
    jeff

  8. #8
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    Have engine builder here I work with take wayyy too long on motors before. I refer him work- he does a great job- but gets wayyy behind a lot. sometimes 6 months +... but always comes through. I hope that is all you are going through....

    But if it's not... if he is scamming you....

    Get doc's/ facts from the builder NOW such as: parts list, costs/labor, invoice info, etc... I would demand it now... prior to paying another dime. Prior to accepting the motor, get info & pics. In the mean time, check the parts list & begin getting parts jobber/dealer parts prices (just to compare something). How the hell do you forget a timing chain???? Bring a camera to the p/u location... pop the valve covers... know what you are looking at. File a claim w/ BBB prior to p/u in case you need to show a pattern/problem in the future. Get as much info as you can VIA E-MAIL... you may need it in the future. Demand to see it NOW regardless of any more money needed. Next call should a to schedule a appointment to see the motor & discuss completion or suspension of build until you feel it is right. Good luck!!!
    "I would walk through hell on Sunday before I fear the enemy"


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