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Thread: Angry Ok I am getting fed up!!!!!!!

  1. #1
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    Angry Ok I am getting fed up!!!!!!!

    Ok as some on here might already know I have a 1970 Formula 400 RA III ordered in a weird way. I have had this car since 2003 or 2004. It was found in a garage where it has been sitting since 1982. I have researched this car high and low. Now I myself have owned many F-bodies, some rare, some not but every time I think I have my information set in stone be it from my experience, literature or from dictation given by experts, contradicting information comes my way and puts me back at the drawing board again. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr......

    Now I am no collector and when I restored old cars for a living it was on a paycheck. All I wanted to do was build a pro street and came across this car along the way by accident. Now I can't bring myself to cut this car, much less play with it in any way other then stock due to rarity. So I stopped work, put the car to the side and went hunting for something else to pro street with plans on just selling the car or if possible trade it. Please understand I found only two other Formulas that matched my car. One was restored and owned by a Mr Ed Harris in California that stated they were a drag pack model and a second guy in CA that had one missing everything (ie: heads, intake, carb, trans, etc) that said he heard the same info. Other then these two I found no other Ram Air F-bodies ordered like mine. So in seven years this was it, until I put my car in the paper for sale... Well guess what.......
    BAM!!! A guy sees my add and calls me all happy to meet someone else with a sister car of his finally. He tells me all new info and that he is the second owner of his car for 35 years. He has a factory Formula RA but equipped not with the RAIII (get this), but equipped with the RA IV and yes he has it certified. That's right a WW stamped RA IV block that all the books took an oath on saying was never available in any 70 Formula as it was a specific option for only the Trans Am.... WTF??? After an hour talking to this guy I also learn that the whole 1970.5 common knowledge thing is a misconception and there is in fact Firebirds/Formulas/Trans Ams (though only a minor amount) that are actually built as a true 1970 model, but due to safety standards, production stopped to correct the endura bumpers because they weren't able to with stand a 5 MPH hit. Regulations forced Pontiac to stop production and add a solid support behind the endura nose somewhere by the rad support or something to this detail. He explains that these true 1970 Formulas are the cars like mine with the M-21 and an optional 12 bolt 3:73 rear and the ones that were actually 1970.5 were all M-20's with an optional 10 bolt 3:55 rear. He also verifies that Pontiac had a drag package but to his knowledge only came on full chassis Ponchos and not uni-bodies.
    Ok I can handle this information as it explains why I have no enduro nose support, I have a 12 bolt 3:73 posi and an M-21 all verified by PHS but now I have to investigate new information. Apparently with the 1970 models, some lucky vehicles received 88 Ram Air blocks that were taken off the GTO line and 22 were put in Formula's and 66 were put in Trans Ams. I also understand though these blocks have an SD stamp they supposedly have no 421SD internal qualities but now as I found out these might actually be RA IV's. Ughhh are there any old time Poncho veterans out there that might have some info on this new information I have received and can set this straight once and for all.... I thought my 68 was a PITA to decode but this car takes the cake by far. BTW I also have a 15" Rallye package that PHS confirmed but everyone is telling me no I should have a 14" (seems both carry a JJ code following behind a 14 or 15 stamp on the build sheet) and I was told 15" was only on the Trans Am. But they are on my car and on the dealers invoice. Any info would be appreciated.....

  2. #2
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    I would do a google search and find an F BODY FORUM. Not that people here can't/won't help just saying a forum full of F BODY guys might increase your chances. I think HARBONE is a F BODY LOVER...Maybe he will be of some help. good luck

  3. #3
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    Hey Tod, how you doing bro? everything is good on this end except for this car... lol. Yeah I know most of the F-body and Pontiac forums and it was those forums that gave me all the contradicting information for the most part... lol. Someone just told me about a service through Barret Jackson that goes deeper into investigating a specified car then PHS does. So I am going to see what it costs and if feasible, I might just take that route. I just want to avoid any mistakes restoring her from misinformation.
    Life's Journey is NOT to Arrive at the Grave Safely in a Well Preserved Body, But Rather to Skid in Sideways, Totally Worn Out, Shouting "HOLY SH*T.... WHAT A RIDE!!!!"

  4. #4
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    go to firebirn nation ask for gene or layna they can help
    CRIMEDOG
    Sam Wood

  5. #5
    Moderator RACING JUNKIE Harbone's Avatar
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    believe what the PHS documents say, the 15 inch wheels do belong on your car. there were a few 1970 cars that made it out before production was halted. If you have one KEEP IT! it is one rare bird. There are plenty of websites with info on your car, just surf around. Dont always go by what someone else tells you, believe your documentation, if you can find the "build sheet" thats even better, look in the springs of the back seat top and bottom, under the passenger seat springs or carpet. they are also sometimes on top of the gas tank but those rarely survive unless the car was kept inside all its life. one other place is sometimes they shoved them up under the dash. If you have the PHS documents, what was the build date?
    Chris

    As close to "Normal" as I can get...

  6. #6
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    ALSO (IN CHEVELLES AT LEAST) build sheets are sometimes found behind the door panels. They were supposed to be discarded at the factory,not stuffed into the car. Thank God for the rule breaking American factory worker. Without them many cars could not be documented.

  7. #7
    Moderator RACING JUNKIE Harbone's Avatar
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    I finally just found my sheet stuck in the springs under my passenger seat, I had looked every where else so I pulled the seat out last night and there it was, made my day!
    Chris

    As close to "Normal" as I can get...

  8. #8
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    Harb-

    That is awesome!!! Plus you have a low-mile car too. Nice to have that documentation!! I am going to see if mine is there on my 68 Chevelle. It is a virgin, so I might have a chance.
    "I would walk through hell on Sunday before I fear the enemy"

  9. #9
    Senior Member RACING JUNKIE
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    My Chevelle was built in Canada. I don't need a build sheet as Canada kept records while GM in America did not. I can buy a package that perfectly documents my car for a couple hundred bucks.

    Scooter go to the Chevelle site and ask those guys where to look. They will ask you to look at your trim tag and tell them where the car was built. There is a pattern that shows where the sheet will be based on the assembly plant. Example most Baltimore cars the sheet is found in location 1 while Kansas cars typically have the sheet in location 2 etc.

  10. #10
    Moderator RACING JUNKIE Harbone's Avatar
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    I am glad that you can get all the PHS (Pontiac Historical Society) documentation for $75! Its super detailed but having that actual build sheet is a bonus.
    Chris

    As close to "Normal" as I can get...


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